1 1 2 3 4 U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL JANET F. RENO 5 SPEAKING BEFORE 6 NATIONAL COUNCIL ON THE ARTS 7 128th MEETING 8 9 10 11 12 Friday, September 6, 1996 13 10:00 a.m. to 11:00 a.m. 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 Nancy Hanks Center Room M-09 21 11th and Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 22 2 1 C O N T E N T S 2 PAGE 3 Introduction by National Council on the 3 Arts Chairman Jane Alexander 4 Speech by Attorney General Janet F. Reno 3 5 Remarks by Attorney General Janet F. Reno 11 6 in response to Council Members questions 7 Questions and Remarks by National Council on the Arts Members: 8 Speight Jenkins 11, 13, 41 9 (Opera Company Director) 10 Colleen Jennings-Roggensack 14, 39 (Arts Presenter) 11 Luis Valdez 16, 44 12 (Theater Company Director) 13 William A. Strickland Jr. 21, 50 (Arts Administrator/Ceramist) 14 Kenneth M. Jarin 26 15 (Patron/Trustee) 16 Leo J. O'Donovan, S.J. 28 (University President) 17 Richard J. Stern 31 18 (Patron/Trustee) 19 Patrick Davidson 35 (Television Producer) 20 Wallace D. McRae 46, 49 21 (Rancher/Poet) 22 Ronald Feldman 54, 59 (Art Gallery Owner) 3 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER: Right now I'd 3 like to introduce our very special guest, who 4 probably needs no introduction, but she is a 5 committed person to the youth of America in 6 particular and the arts right now. And I want 7 to introduce Attorney General Janet Reno. 8 Welcome. 9 (Applause) 10 ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO: I thank you 11 for that warm welcome. 12 But I should be applauding you, Jane, 13 and so many others who have done so much in 14 these last three years to promote the arts and 15 to promote the freedom that the arts demand. 16 And I thank you so very much for your 17 leadership. 18 Somebody asked me, "Why are you going 19 over there?" 20 (Laughter) 21 ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO: And the 22 answer is very simple. 4 1 Madelyn Ander (phonetic) tried to 2 teach me music. And she said, "Mrs. Reno, the 3 little girl just can't get above G." 4 (Laughter) 5 ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO: And my art 6 teachers just stared. 7 But my aunt, who was the music and 8 art critic at the Miami Herald, was a wonderful 9 teacher and took me to dress rehearsals of the 10 Greater Miami Opera when I was about 11 and 11 introduced me to wonderful worlds. And I 12 remember that. 13 And I think it is critical, as we 14 address the problem of young people in America 15 and the violence and the drugs that beset them, 16 that we try to do everything we can to provide 17 other alternatives and other opportunities. 18 As a prosecutor in Miami for 15 19 years, I looked at presentence investigations 20 of young men we had just adjudicated guilty of 21 an armed robbery at 17. And I can see three or 22 four places along the way where we could have 5 1 intervened in that child's life to have made a 2 difference, to have given him a constructive, 3 crime-free future. And we had failed to 4 intervene. 5 I try to make it a point to talk to 6 young people who have been in trouble or who 7 are in trouble as I travel across the Nation. 8 And they tell me time and again, when 9 I ask them, "What could have been done to have 10 prevented this problem in the first place?" 11 The first thing they tell me is, 12 "Somebody to talk to, somebody who understands 13 how difficult it is to grow up in American 14 today" -- how important it is to have somebody 15 you can go to that can give you support when 16 you need it and discipline when you need it. 17 And the second thing that they talk 18 about is, "Something constructive to do in the 19 afternoon and evenings." And that is a theme 20 that comes back again and again and again. 21 Sports has been the opportunity that 22 many have found. But what I hear from so many 6 1 young men and women is, "Something other than 2 sports." 3 I think sports is a wonderful 4 vehicle. I think we've got to be very careful, 5 as we encourage young people both in sports and 6 in art, that we don't make them think that 7 everybody can be totally successful, but that 8 we use sports and the arts as means of giving 9 them a fuller, stronger character with which to 10 enjoy the world for the rest of their lives. 11 It has been so rewarding for me, 12 therefore, to have had the chance to talk to 13 Jane shortly after she took office and to find 14 that we shared the sense that the arts could be 15 a wonderful vehicle for constructive pursuits 16 for our young people, giving them an 17 opportunity to explore new worlds, to develop 18 new talents, and to believe in themselves a 19 little bit more than they do. 20 I have now followed in Jane's 21 footsteps: To Minneapolis to a wonderful 22 project in the neighborhood, where they said, 7 1 "Jane Alexander has been here, and she saw what 2 we were doing with young people. And it has 3 made a difference, because we know we're doing 4 it right." 5 And to talk with a young person who 6 is active with the Dance Theatre in Denver, 7 "Jane Alexander has been here, and we feel good 8 about what we're doing in terms of outreach to 9 students." 10 I brought with me something that you 11 might -- and I think it's one of the great 12 documents that I've seen in the last two or 13 three years. It's called "Great Transitions" 14 by the Carnegie Foundation, "Preparing 15 Adolescents for a New Century." 16 I think it describes, just briefly, 17 the real challenge that we face today, with 18 high divorce rates, increases in both parents 19 working, and the growth of single parents. 20 Slightly more than half of all 21 American children will spend at least part of 22 their childhood or adolescence living with only 8 1 one parent. 2 In this situation, exacerbated by the 3 erosion of neighborhood networks and other 4 traditional support systems, children now spend 5 significantly less time in the company of 6 adults than a few decades ago. More of their 7 time is spent in front of the television set or 8 with their peers, in age-segregated, 9 unsupervised environments. 10 It notes that about 25 percent have 11 already engaged in at-risk behaviors. And 12 others face the potential, for as many as 50 13 percent will do so in this unsupervised time. 14 Thus, it's exciting, to me, to see 15 the steps that you have taken. And I would 16 like to support you, in every way I can, in 17 future steps to make it a comprehensive 18 initiative around the country. 19 There are some unusual allies that 20 you might not be aware of. And just think 21 about it for a moment. 22 The National Association of Parks and 9 1 Recreation Professionals has identified 2 programs for children at risk as one of their 3 priorities. 4 And what can we do if we reach out 5 across disciplines and across towns and 6 organize more effectively in our parks and our 7 recreation facilities of this Nation real 8 opportunities for young people in the world of 9 arts? 10 Community police are a whole new 11 force in this Nation. They are very good at 12 getting evidence from people because the people 13 trust them. 14 But they are also very good at being 15 on the cutting edge of giving people a sense 16 that they can be self-sufficient, that they can 17 live in their neighborhood, that they can enjoy 18 their neighborhood. I think it might be fun to 19 see what the COPS Program can do in terms of 20 some partnerships there. 21 But most of all, I came here today to 22 tell you how much I want to support you and how 10 1 much I value your work. 2 I would suggest two challenges that 3 are important: First, what can we do with your 4 young people who are in prison who are coming 5 out sooner rather than later, sometimes coming 6 out without skills or without any sense of 7 self-esteem? 8 Yesterday I had the chance to hear of 9 a young man who had been to prison for 18 10 months, learned to play the piano in prison, 11 came back after serving time for the drug 12 charge and became a youth counselor and is, I 13 believe, on his way to college to become a 14 certified counselor to work with young people. 15 Just think of what we can do if we 16 use arts in the prison to give people a sense 17 of self-esteem, a sense of value. 18 And the second is: I think it 19 critically important that we encourage efforts 20 with the American Indians. They are such a 21 great part of the tradition of this Nation and 22 this continent. They do such wonderful work in 11 1 the arts, perpetuating their traditions. 2 The Department of Justice has tried 3 to reach out to Indian tribes across the 4 Nation, to listen to them, to hear, and to try 5 to be responsive in matters of tribal justice 6 and tribal law enforcement. And we would look 7 forward to working with you in that area as 8 well. 9 But I would be happy to answer your 10 questions or take your ideas about what the 11 Department of Justice can be doing to be more 12 effective in this effort. 13 CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER: Thank you very 14 much, General Reno. 15 Are there questions or comments? 16 Speight. 17 MR. JENKINS: General, we at Seattle 18 Opera have had a remarkable success in one 19 area. 20 There's the Echo Glen Juvenile 21 Detention Center in Seattle, which is basically 22 for sexual offenders. And we started four 12 1 years ago -- they were very eager to do this -- 2 with having -- every Sunday night they have an 3 hour to two hours on opera, a section 4 specifically on opera, working with our 5 stories, working with what we do. 6 People from my company go out twice a 7 month and spend an hour with these kids. And 8 every one of our dress rehearsals, we bring 9 between 7 and 10 of these juvenile offenders to 10 the dress rehearsal with guards. 11 And they sit -- we have -- we bring a 12 thousand children to each of our dress 13 rehearsals, and they -- I mean, a thousand 14 teenage -- you know, high school. They sit 15 upstairs. 16 We have them down in the orchestra 17 section, where no one else sits. But we have 18 the guards and they come. And it has been 19 really a remarkable program. 20 ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO: Oh, that's 21 wonderful. What I'll do is ask our Office of 22 Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention to 13 1 be in touch with whomever you would suggest, 2 because I'd like to see what we can do to 3 spread that concept. 4 MR. JENKINS: Because it has really 5 been unique. And it has been so interesting 6 how opera stories, dealing as they do with 7 archetypes and things like that, have made a 8 tremendous influence on the children. 9 And I think that one of the things 10 that might be surprising is how they have -- 11 how much they did with the "Ring." Because of 12 the "Ring," of course, dealing as it does with 13 so many problems of the human family, they 14 really got into that. It was fascinating how 15 many times they've been able to do that. 16 And the other thing we've done is 17 that there's a home for abused women in Seattle 18 which we've also started working with. And 19 we've found that there we've had people who, on 20 more than, I think, 10 or 12 occasions -- 10 or 21 12 people who had not left the home for two 22 years because they were so terrified. 14 1 So we came in and talked to them. 2 They were wiling to come to the opera to a 3 dress rehearsal to see it, because we talked to 4 them about it. 5 They particularly -- for instance, 6 you talk to me about an opera like "Electra," 7 and they were completely fascinated and 8 couldn't wait to come and see it; because it 9 was, unfortunately, their life. 10 ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO: I'll call 11 them up, if I may. 12 MR. JENKINS: Yes, ma'am, please. 13 ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO: Great. 14 CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER: Colleen. 15 MS. JENNINGS-ROGGENSACK: Ms. Reno, 16 in Arizona we've been very fortunate to have 17 two very solid relationships with our County 18 Attorney, Rick Romley (phonetic), and with our 19 own Attorney General, Grant Woods. 20 As a result of efforts on the part of 21 Arizona State's Commission on the Arts and a 22 variety of arts administrators throughout the 15 1 state, we have a program called "The Apple 2 Corps," where we have been granted the RICO 3 funds, the drug reassessment monies, and taken 4 those funds and supported artists in the 5 schools and provided programs for them. 6 In addition, both the Attorney 7 General and the County Attorney have granted 8 additional funds and worked with our own 9 organization at Arizona State University in 10 doing a "Take Back Your Life" program, where we 11 have worked in conjunction with popular 12 artists, like Paul Rodriguez, and worked with 13 not only bringing children to the theatre, 14 young people, but going to places like Adobe 15 Mountain, which is a detention center for 16 juveniles. 17 It is a breathtakingly important 18 project. And I think anything that you can do 19 to encourage other attorney generals and their 20 states and country attorneys to look at those 21 funds that are in each of our states because of 22 the drug problems that we are encountering, and 16 1 use those to support the arts and education 2 would be extraordinarily helpful. 3 ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO: Let me talk 4 with Grant Woods and then with the National 5 Association of Attorneys General and see what 6 we might do. That would be a wonderful idea. 7 CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER: Thank you. 8 Luis. 9 MR. VALDEZ: Attorney General, it's a 10 pleasure to meet you and thank you for all the 11 great work that you have done in your capacity. 12 In California, prisons are a growth 13 industry. That's both a tragedy and a reality. 14 The university that I work with has, 15 as a nearby neighbor, the Soledad Prison, as 16 well as Vacaville State Prison. 17 And those are two prisons that I have 18 been inside as a performer and also as a 19 filmmaker, having conversations and workshops 20 with the inmates. The continuing tragedy is 21 that the inmates seem to be getting younger and 22 younger. 17 1 And one of the solutions that we are 2 working with within my field is the possibility 3 to get the inmates writing. 4 If it's poetry, that's a beginning, 5 and that's beautiful. If it's a novel, that's 6 great. 7 What I'm trying to steer them toward 8 is screenplays. Because if anything is 9 commercial and fashionable in Hollywood, it's 10 always criminality. So why not make a business 11 of it? 12 And so I try to encourage these 13 prisoners, these inmates, to express the 14 tragedies of their lives in some kind of 15 dramatic form. 16 I don't think that we -- we have not 17 worked out all the details yet as to how they 18 might be compensated or whether the state would 19 allow that. 20 But I think that any form of literary 21 expression which fits, unfortunately, the 22 confines of a cell -- as a writer, I know what 18 1 it is to sit at a computer. At home, actually, 2 I'm in prison when I'm working on something. 3 And so it might work that, with the 4 time given to inmates, that they might be able 5 to come up with new expressions of their 6 reality and in some way hint to the rest of us 7 where the solution might lie. 8 The arts are a reforming power and 9 force in the life of all of us. And it is so 10 for those people that are incarcerated in the 11 Nation's prisons as much as it is for the poets 12 and the playwrights and composers that live 13 outside. 14 ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO: One of the 15 most interesting things that I have seen, in 16 just receiving letters from inmates, some that 17 you can barely decipher, and others that you 18 can decipher and that are powerful, but in an 19 idiom that most people wouldn't accept, is how 20 we appreciate the written expression in the so 21 many different forms that it takes, and 22 understand that it is an expression in many 19 1 instances from the heart. 2 I think that's one of the great 3 challenges of the English language now. And it 4 is so fascinating to me to see how expressive 5 it can be. 6 It is also fascinating to me to see 7 how people still haven't learned to write, 8 including lawyers. 9 (Laughter) 10 ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO: And one of my 11 missions is to make sure that I do everything I 12 can while at the Department of Justice to get 13 lawyers to use small, old words and talk in 14 terms that people can understand. 15 (Laughter) 16 ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO: Which leads 17 to another initiative that I think you have 18 made a contribution to. And I think it's 19 important. 20 There is something really exciting 21 happening across this land in schools, at the 22 Air Force Academy, with lawyers. And that is 20 1 that people are focusing on how we can resolve 2 our conflicts in the legal realm without 3 trials, expensive trials; how we can resolve 4 kids' conflicts in school without knives and 5 guns and fists; how we can resolve conflicts so 6 that we don't have to go to lawyers. 7 And the contributions that you all 8 have made in terms of how the arts can play a 9 role in this, oftentimes just by a matter of 10 expression. 11 I saw something yesterday in 12 Philadelphia that was so exciting. I saw 13 youngsters playing roles that taught them how 14 to talk with each other; what body language 15 means; what a tone of voice means; how you can 16 use a tone of voice and body language to 17 resolve the conflict, rather than to create it. 18 And it made me think, as I watched 19 this absolutely wonderful teacher take these 20 youngsters in a difficult area through some of 21 the steps, this is art at its best. And it's 22 how we communicate, how we talk to each other. 21 1 So there are some exciting things 2 that I think can be done in that area as well. 3 But there is a whole notion in this 4 land that we don't have to be as divisive, as 5 fussy, as litigious, as violent; that we ought 6 to be able to sit down and resolve a lot of our 7 conflicts in a lot better way. And I think the 8 arts can lead the way, in terms of teaching us 9 how to communicate. 10 Winston Churchill said we should use 11 the small "o" words, and I think it helps. 12 (Laughter) 13 CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER: Bill. 14 MR. STRICKLAND: One of the areas, 15 General Reno, that has impressed me about your 16 leadership is in the clear understanding that 17 the most cost-effective way to deal with crime 18 is to prevent it in the first place. 19 Your thoughts, in terms of how we can 20 get to the children before they become 21 criminals, have impressed me over the years. 22 And I was wondering if you might share some of 22 1 your thoughts in terms of the prevention area 2 and how sports and the arts and similar 3 activity can prevent children from becoming 4 criminals in the first place. 5 ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO: One of the 6 first things that we, tragically, have to do -- 7 because as you look at the increase in prisons 8 and the younger offenders there, one of the 9 things we've got to do is to make our 10 neighborhoods safe enough so that people will 11 come out and share their talents, and so that 12 people will come out and go to the local 13 community center after school and in the 14 evening to participate or go to the park. 15 But I feel very strongly that we have 16 to do it in a whole way. And that as we work 17 on programs in the arts and communities, it has 18 to be linked to other areas. 19 Children can overcome so much, but 20 they have so much adversity in so many 21 situations. 22 And one of the things that I would be 23 1 interested in -- I've never heard the artists 2 talk about this, and it would be interesting. 3 But let me just give you my experience. 4 When the crack epidemic hit Miami in 5 1985, the doctors took me to our large public 6 hospital to figure out what to do about 7 crack-involved infants and their mothers. 8 Should we prosecute the mothers? Was 9 the child dependent? When did we send the 10 child home with the mother? And I spent a lot 11 of time with child development experts. They 12 taught me, at the time, that the first three 13 years of life are the most formative; that 50 14 percent of all learned human response was 15 learned in that first year of life; that the 16 concept of reward and punishment and the 17 conscience was developed during the first three 18 years. 19 You could see it with these children 20 who had remained in the nursery because they 21 could not be sent home and they had been there 22 for six weeks. The nursery was becoming 24 1 overcrowded because the epidemic hit so 2 suddenly. 3 And those crack-involved infants had 4 not been held or talked to except when changed 5 and fed. And they were not beginning to 6 respond with human emotions after six weeks. 7 They were lying there almost as little animals. 8 They just weren't responding. 9 Whereas, the child across the room 10 who had severe birth defects, but with parents 11 around the clock -- one just there all the 12 time, or as much as possible -- that child was 13 beginning to respond through the pain with 14 really human emotion. 15 When do we start focusing on the 16 arts? Obviously, music is a magical part of 17 that time. Obviously, pictures and the 18 concepts. 19 And so one of the things that I would 20 urge you to do, as we talk about prevention, 21 is, as I've urged others, remember those first 22 three years. 25 1 The afternoon and evening programs 2 are so critical. 3 That unsupervised time that the 4 Carnegie Foundation refers to is so critical. 5 What can we do with after-school 6 programs? What can we do with parks and 7 recreation? What can we do on weekends to 8 involve them? How can we participate with 9 others? 10 You were talking about technology. 11 And I think one of the great things of word 12 processors is it's so easy to change what you 13 mess up. You can edit yourself a lot better. 14 And what we could do, in terms of 15 interactive video, in teaching children how to 16 express themselves and in introducing them to 17 poetry and showing them how to -- there are 18 just so many things that we can do if we 19 understand the tremendous potential out there. 20 But the one thing I would stress to 21 you, I've heard coaches tell me, "It's wrong to 22 encourage kids too much in sports, because only 26 1 a very few will be successful." 2 And when they get into it in high 3 school, they all want to be the Heisman trophy 4 winner in four years, and they all want to play 5 for the Dolphins or somebody else. And most of 6 them are never going to make it. 7 And probably all want to be the great 8 singer and to go to the Met, but they're not 9 all going to make it. 10 And they're not all going to get 11 published. I think one of the great challenges 12 that we have for our young people is to give 13 them the gift of arts, to give them the gift of 14 recreation and sports as part of an inner self, 15 as opposed to a part of fame. 16 And I think that is one of the real 17 challenges that we face. 18 CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER: Yes, Ken Jarin. 19 MR. JARIN: General Reno, I'm not the 20 only attorney on the Council. I think I'm the 21 only practicing attorney. And I share your 22 sentiments about lawyers learning how to write. 27 1 When young people ask me, "What 2 should I study in college to be a lawyer," I 3 say, "Learn how to write a sentence and a 4 paragraph," because that's so important. 5 I thought, perhaps through your 6 leadership, there might be an effort to 7 encourage bar associations, particularly the 8 young lawyers' groups in the bar associations, 9 to work with the regional umbrella arts 10 organizations in some combined effort -- 11 ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO: Well, that's 12 a marvelous idea. 13 MR. JARIN: -- to reach out to young 14 people. Those organizations are often looking 15 for things to do that are meaningful for a 16 community. And perhaps that would be a way to 17 bring those two groups together -- perhaps 18 through some sponsorships of programs to bring 19 children to the arts, or arts to children. 20 ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO: You know, 21 you've given me -- let me take that up with the 22 ABA. I think that could be fascinating. And I 28 1 will pursue that. 2 But, as somebody mentioned, the 3 problem of domestic violence, too. And it is a 4 wonderful feeling to sit in a -- Donna Shalala 5 and I have an Advisory Council on Family and 6 Domestic Violence, and we have representatives 7 of the AMA and the ABA there together. 8 It might be fascinating to see what 9 we could do through both organizations in terms 10 of outreach to women in battered-spouse 11 shelters who are victims of domestic violence, 12 because it's being approached now both from a 13 public health perspective and a legal 14 criminal-justice perspective. And maybe both 15 could do some interesting work there. 16 So that's two good ideas. Thank you. 17 CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER: Father Leo. 18 FR. O'DONOVAN: Thanks again, 19 Attorney General Reno, for coming. 20 Your remarks on the hesitance of 21 coaches to encourage young people fascinate me. 22 Because it's undoubted that we have heros of 29 1 sports in the country who've become icons for 2 young people through their success, almost as 3 much through their extra-sports success, their 4 endorsement of products, their fabulous 5 contracts, their entry into the world of the 6 Carnegies and Mellons, but by a different 7 route, in terms of financial remuneration. 8 Since I think you're right that we 9 must take a broad approach to neighborhoods and 10 encourage sports as well as arts, it reminds me 11 that there's a great body of literature on the 12 meaning of sports which, I take it, is 13 essentially not about winning but about 14 playing, since you need a winner to make most 15 sports interesting, but you don't play only to 16 win, you play primarily to play; which brings 17 it much closer to art, as these people point 18 out, than one might think and, indeed, to 19 religion. 20 You give yourself up to the rules of 21 the game. You don't reconstitute how baseball 22 is played every time you play it. 30 1 You play as a team in many sports. 2 You are dependent on a great deal of tradition, 3 a public that likes the sport -- if it's only 4 family and friends or your school chums. 5 What I'm led to think is that we have 6 to think about educating not only the children 7 but the coaches. Because if they think that 8 the only successes will be the youngsters who 9 go into the NBA or even the minor leagues or 10 their successors, boy, that's a disaster. 11 And as an educator, I am reminded how 12 fortunate any school is if its coaches are 13 coaching students, student athletes, and not 14 just potential successes. 15 ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO: Father Leo, I 16 named my colt "Dodger" after the Brooklyn 17 Dodgers. And I followed Jackie Robinson and 18 Pee Wee Reese and Don Newcombe in every way 19 that I could, and I got very upset when the 20 Dodgers moved to Los Angeles. 21 But one of the things that always 22 fascinated me about baseball -- I knew I 31 1 couldn't grow up to play on the Brooklyn 2 Dodgers, but it was fascinating to me that a 3 pitcher could put a pitch over that plate in 4 that narrow line. 5 So I used to spend summers pitching 6 against a wall to see whether I could do it. 7 And never dreaming that I would be famous, but 8 just there was a certain part of it. 9 I have often wished I could sing, to 10 do the same thing. 11 But, as my mother said, "What will 12 you take not to sing anymore?" 13 (Laughter) 14 CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER: Yes, Dick Stern. 15 MR. STERN: I'm on the board of the 16 Chicago Symphony Orchestra. And one of the 17 things that we do at the Chicago Symphony is 18 try to get into the schools. We have musicians 19 going to the schools all over the Chicago area 20 and playing to get the students interested in 21 music. 22 In addition to that, we have eight 32 1 concerts that are what we call "family 2 concerts." In reality, they're children's 3 concerts. They're concerts for the children 4 which we hope the family will participate in. 5 And they're always sold out. 6 And this is one area to get the 7 children interested in classical music, 8 contemporary music, which we think is very, 9 very good. 10 But we had one more idea -- one which 11 I had, as a matter of fact. We haven't been 12 able to do it yet, but we're trying. And that 13 is to get a basketball celebrity -- a Michael 14 Jordan, if you will -- to have something like a 15 "Peter and the Wolf" in the Chicago Stadium and 16 allow the children to come in -- of course, 17 without fee. 18 I think if we can do more and more to 19 encourage the children to get into the musical 20 area or any of the arts -- and, as a matter of 21 fact, encourage the athletes, the leading 22 athletes, to help them do it -- I think we can 33 1 start programs which will further the child's 2 growth. 3 ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO: Let me 4 suggest to you what I think is one of the 5 critical challenges, though, in that 6 undertaking. And it goes back to how we 7 prevent. 8 You're reaching out to children that 9 -- in the first place, they become fascinated 10 by the trumpet, but they don't begin to have 11 the money for the trumpet. And they don't have 12 a mother who will scrounge and they don't have 13 an advocate who will scrounge to find the 14 money. 15 If they're lucky, they will have a 16 music teacher at school who will become their 17 advocate. And the music teacher will focus 18 probably on those that have real talent, and 19 she may get them off on the right foot. 20 But there will be one who would just 21 thoroughly enjoy playing the trumpet, wouldn't 22 be great, but would have a wonderful time with 34 1 it. And there's no advocate to get him that 2 trumpet. 3 Or if they can, there is no advocate 4 in that child's life that teaches him the 5 discipline of how to learn that trumpet, 6 because he has simply not had the structure 7 around his life that disciplines him to learn 8 anything. 9 And as I was reminded yesterday as I 10 visited the Philadelphia community, we have got 11 to go beyond our traditional efforts to expose 12 people to the arts and to the wonderful things 13 of the world, and really almost reweave the 14 fabric of community around some children who 15 have been dramatically at risk. 16 We're playing catch-up ball. It's 17 remedial. But I refuse to give up on a 18 generation. 19 And so as you think about it, think 20 about what might happen if musicians, not 21 necessarily in the orchestra -- but if the 22 orchestra linked with one of the universities, 35 1 if we could develop mentoring programs where 2 musicians were in the community with the 3 children, say once a week or on a weekly basis, 4 and we found used instruments for every child 5 that was interested, it could be so exciting. 6 But we would have to provide that 7 follow-up to reach the young people that we're 8 talking about who are so terribly at risk. 9 CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER: Patrick 10 Davidson. 11 MR. DAVIDSON: I'm currently a 12 television producer, but I used to be a 13 probation officer. So I come to this in kind 14 of an odd perspective. 15 And it struck me, in the conversation 16 that's taking place, you have access to people 17 who have a tremendous influence on young 18 people. And that is the law enforcement 19 officials, be it probation officers, be it 20 policemen, be it sheriffs. 21 I've seen it, and I've done it, where 22 you become a key person in that individual's 36 1 life. 2 And what strikes me is the merger. 3 We keep talking about sports, and we keep 4 talking about the arts. And you talk to any 5 good probation officer or outreach worker, and 6 they all know of taking a kid to a ball game. 7 But the idea of taking a child to a 8 community play, you know, to a theatre 9 performance, and exposing them and, in fact, in 10 many cases exposing both of them and sharing 11 that experience, is a tremendous opportunity. 12 And also, to take it one step 13 further, since we have, unfortunately, millions 14 of children that are in search of families, I 15 have seen -- and I think all of us have seen -- 16 what happens in a theatre environment, where 17 the theatre performers become a community and, 18 in fact, becomes a family unto themselves. And 19 there's an opportunity for children to become 20 part of that family and to be nurtured by that 21 environment. 22 And so if we can get people outside 37 1 out of -- I mean, the arts are considered out 2 there. And my goal -- and I think a lot of us 3 -- is to get it more and more mainstream. 4 And who is more mainstream than the 5 law enforcement officials? And to get them 6 involved and see the arts as an opportunity to 7 reach out to their community and their 8 constituency is tremendous. 9 ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO: That is the 10 reason I suggested, at the outset, one area 11 that we might explore is how we could work 12 together through the Community Policing 13 Initiative of the COPS Program to make sure 14 that community police officers -- the President 15 made the commitment to get 100,000 police 16 officers on the streets. 40,000 have been 17 authorized. They're doing incredibly wonderful 18 things in their communities. And I think this 19 would be a natural. 20 The other thing, it just occurs to 21 me, as I hear you talk -- for example, Boston 22 is doing some wonderful things, where police 38 1 officers are working with probation officers as 2 a team. And that's an exciting possibility. 3 And we might explore, in the Boston area, what 4 could be done as part of that initiative. And 5 I'll follow up with Jane on that. 6 And the third thing is the 7 International Association of Chiefs of Police 8 has a draft report that it's about to publish 9 on what can be done about youth violence. 10 And you'd be very impressed. It's 11 not all punishment. There's a great deal of 12 very thoughtful work done on prevention. 13 And it might be that we can -- let's 14 talk to David Walchek (phonetic) and the new 15 president, and see what we can do to form some 16 links there. 17 CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER: That's a very 18 good idea. 19 In listening, it occurs to me that, 20 if the first three years of life are so vital 21 in terms of how these young minds are formed, 22 it's the parents that somehow we have to get to 39 1 as well. And that's the bigger challenge. 2 Does anybody have any ideas about 3 that? 4 Colleen. 5 MS. JENNINGS-ROGGENSACK: I would 6 just add a fourth idea to Patrick's list. 7 In Arizona, again, working with our 8 County Attorney Rick Romley (phonetic) in 9 Maricopa County, we have formulated a two-year 10 project with the American Festival Project. 11 And that's a group of artists who are committed 12 to social change in a community. 13 We are working with the three police 14 forces in the area, the Phoenix police and the 15 Tempe police and Mesa police force, in a 16 technique that's known as a story circle. 17 We're not only working with the 18 police officers, but with community members in 19 each of those communities, to bring a humane 20 approach and an interchange of what each 21 other's lives are like. 22 We've begun this year by working with 40 1 the Phoenix police -- I think the artists said 2 this is the first time they had worked in a 3 room with 80 people with guns on -- and in 4 bringing out the stories of their lives and 5 combining those stories together with the end 6 result of it being a staged work. 7 We are also working with the children 8 and with a variety of ages, from seniors to 9 young people, in that project. 10 Those funds are, again, RICO funds 11 that we are using to access that. 12 But we have worked with Banc One and 13 accessed corporate funds, and are doing a 14 similar story circle project with corporate 15 leaders in the Valley. 16 And I think that's a hands-on real 17 project that you can use with artists who are 18 currently working in that milieu. 19 ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO: One of the 20 things that you might do, Jane, is -- I think 21 people are recognizing more and more that 22 "educare" -- I call it "educare," those first 41 1 three years, not child care -- but let's really 2 use that time the right way. 3 And I think there are some national 4 associations of child care professionals, and 5 it might be interesting to see what we could do 6 working together with them in that regard. 7 CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER: Speight. 8 MR. JENKINS: What I was going to -- 9 sort of what I was going to say, one of the 10 things that we found very successful in Seattle 11 is to, since there are so few music teachers -- 12 you made the point of a music teacher -- when 13 there are, they're wonderful. But, 14 unfortunately, in most of our public schools 15 today, we have so few of them. 16 We have moved in on teaching 17 teachers. This is what we do. We go -- 18 particularly humanities teachers, English, and 19 history -- because it's far -- we have proved 20 to them it's far more interesting to teach 21 Spanish history, for instance, by working with 22 "Don Carlo," than it is just where they can 42 1 actually see a "Don Carlo," than it is just 2 teaching Spanish History, and so on and so 3 forth. 4 What I wonder is -- I know -- in New 5 York, which is where I came from originally, I 6 know there is an early childhood development 7 program which specifically works with kids 18 8 months to 3 years. And I know it's a big 9 program. I think it's national. I think there 10 are a lot of these. 11 It seems to me, in response to what 12 Jane said, if we could get these early 13 childhood development programs, if we could get 14 them to understand from the opera companies, 15 from the symphonies, you know, to include us in 16 coming in and doing something with them. 17 I mean, I know the Seattle Opera 18 would be happy to do it. I think a lot of 19 people would in the large arts groups, who have 20 big education programs as we do, to get in and 21 start working with them. 22 I think it's an idea that's quite -- 43 1 would be quite feasible. I'm sure the Met 2 would love to do it in New York -- you know. 3 ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO: One of the 4 things that -- I have to admit to a bias -- my 5 mother would never let us have television 6 because she said it contributed to mind rot. 7 And so I don't look at it too much. 8 And going back to technology, I 9 marvel at what technology can do. But it also 10 has -- except in rare instances, you don't see 11 that human quality of a child who is rocked to 12 sleep by somebody singing a lullaby, or 13 somebody who is read by a voice that they know 14 well and that is a familiar voice that means 15 home and love, read "Wynken, Blynken, and Nod," 16 or others. 17 And some of it is not that 18 complicated. It's just the beautiful books, 19 with the person, with the touch and the feeling 20 that nothing in technology can match. 21 And that, I think, is one of the keys 22 that we need to face. 44 1 MR. VALDEZ: May I respond to that? 2 The concept of high tech is only half 3 the equation. And another phrase that we are 4 using more and more -- my colleagues and I at 5 the university -- is "high touch." You cannot 6 have high tech without "high touch." 7 You cannot have a lot of computers 8 without, by that very act of acquiring 9 computers, emphasize the wonder of just plain 10 earth and clean air and nature. 11 And so these are contradictions, 12 these are paradoxes that are part of life, and 13 they work together. They enhance each other. 14 So, in that sense, it -- education 15 begins with that first touch. And, then, it 16 extends there to a concept of what intelligence 17 is. 18 More recent research, actually with 19 psychologists and educators and so forth, has 20 indicated there are at least seven kinds of 21 intelligence, not just linear rational 22 thinking, but also spatial and motor thinking. 45 1 There's intuitive emotional intelligence. 2 When Michael Jordan drops one from 3 three-quarters across the court, it's because 4 he has a certain kind of human intelligence 5 that brings awe to all of his admirers. 6 And it's that way with gymnasts. We 7 saw the Olympics recently. 8 And it's that way with musicians and 9 actors and dancers. 10 People need to understand that the 11 arts are not a luxury, that the arts are not 12 frivolous, that if you are going to fund 13 scientific activity in this country, you must, 14 for balance, fund the arts. 15 You cannot have the sciences funded 16 for a billion dollars on the one hand and the 17 arts for $99 million on the other. The scale 18 is totally out of kilter. 19 And the arts are science. The 20 sciences are art. 21 And what artists do is, they advance 22 human research on the nature of our human 46 1 being. And this involves children at the 2 earliest stages, as well as elders at the other 3 extreme. 4 CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER: Thank you, Luis. 5 Wally McRae. 6 MR. McRAE: I'm from Montana. And I, 7 first of all, would like to thank you and 8 congratulate you for the peaceful way that you 9 resolved my neighbors, the Freemen holdouts. 10 CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER: Here, here. 11 MR. McRAE: Being from Montana, we 12 have seven Indian reservations and a 13 disproportionate number of people that are 14 incarcerated in the state prison. And also, 15 since crimes on Indian reservations are 16 prosecuted in Federal Court, a lot of the 17 federal prisoners from Montana are Native 18 Americans. 19 And I was sitting here wondering if 20 there would be some way to work with Native 21 American arts with those incarcerated Native 22 Americans. There's a lot of good things about 47 1 it. I mean, why should they have to move out 2 of their culture to do something? 3 The second reason that I would be an 4 advocate of is, it would help to solve some of 5 the unemployment problems on the reservation, 6 to bring someone into the prison system to 7 teach them in some of the Native American arts 8 like beadwork. That's primarily the art form 9 across the seven reservations in Montana -- 10 beadwork, not pottery or silver or things like 11 that. It's beadwork. 12 So you could provide some employment. 13 And then, after the prisoner is released from 14 prison, there's a wonderful demand out there 15 for authentic Native American arts. 16 When I was on my way to Billings the 17 other day, I stopped in a trading post, and 18 Indian tanned buckskin and beaded moccasins are 19 pretty pricey. So there is a great demand for 20 those. 21 So maybe that would be a way where 22 you can involve someone in the arts within 48 1 their own culture, since there is such a high 2 population in some of our Western states of 3 Native Americans that are incarcerated. 4 ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO: What we're 5 trying to do is to work with the tribes and 6 develop, in every way possible, tribal justice 7 initiatives that can blend -- a Native American 8 will talk to me and say, "Our culture is 9 different than yours. Yours is an adversary 10 culture that has to prove somebody guilty, and 11 it's accusatory and adversarial. Ours is how 12 do we resolve the matter peacefully." 13 They talk about sentencing circles, 14 for example, where the community sits around 15 and figures out how to resolve this so it won't 16 happen again. 17 And in light of that, I think we 18 could do perhaps some exciting things in terms 19 of pursuing tribal traditions, in pursuing the 20 Native American art. 21 And I will talk with the director of 22 the Bureau of Prisons, likewise, about the 49 1 possibility of employment skills. 2 I do think, though, just from looking 3 at the whole issue of the tribes across the 4 land, we've got to figure out how they can 5 remain on their tribal lands, how they can be 6 self-sufficient. And art by itself won't do 7 it. 8 And that's one of the great 9 challenges where I think technology -- I think 10 a lot of us are going to be working a long way 11 from urban centers because of technology. And 12 I think that special blend is going to be a 13 challenge, but I think it's possible. And I 14 think the arts can play a real role. 15 MR. McRAE: The only response that I 16 would have is that there are a lot of 17 differences between different tribal cultures. 18 I think that probably -- for 19 instance, my neighbors, the Crows, would tend 20 to resolve things peacefully; where the 21 Cheyennes, my closer neighbors, probably would 22 not. 50 1 So the danger is to lump everyone 2 together and say, "Okay. All of these Indian 3 cultures are the same, and this is the way that 4 strife and controversy is resolved." 5 And it's the same way in the arts. I 6 think that it would be ludicrous to teach 7 Navajos beadwork. That's not part of their 8 culture. And I think it would be just as 9 strange to teach Cheyennes to do turquoise 10 silverwork. 11 So you've got to be a little bit 12 tribally specific in order to be successful, I 13 believe. 14 ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO: That's the 15 reason we're trying to emphasize tribal 16 justice, so that we work -- the U.S. Attorney 17 and the FBI on many cases lets the tribal 18 system -- that we reinforce the tribal system 19 and we let that tribe's cultural backgrounds 20 and cultural justice apply. 21 It's a remarkable challenge, because 22 there are so many different tribes with 51 1 different traditions. But you're right, 2 exactly on point. 3 CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER: Bill, did you 4 have something else? 5 MR. STRICKLAND: In my experience, 6 being a member of the National Council, we've 7 never been short on good ideas or imaginative 8 solutions to problems. We have been a little 9 bit short on cash. 10 (Laughter) 11 MR. STRICKLAND: And I'm just 12 wondering whether or not there might be some 13 opportunity to use the prestige of the Attorney 14 General's office and, of course, the prestige 15 of the Chairman's office, to think about new 16 ways of generating revenue to support many of 17 these very fine initiatives that we all agree 18 are essential, such as whether or not it makes 19 sense to appeal to people's self-interests, 20 like the health care industry, for example, the 21 insurance companies, that are finding 22 themselves with spiralling and out-of-control 52 1 health care costs and not very imaginative ways 2 to contain them; whether or not it makes sense 3 to talk with some of the leaders of these 4 industries, to say, "A little bit of prevention 5 on the front is going to save you an awful lot 6 of money on the tail end," the hospital visits, 7 the emergency room visits, the violence, and so 8 forth; that whether or not it makes any sense 9 to be begin to try and advance another way of 10 thinking about this opportunity to save 11 children before they become criminals. 12 ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO: I've spent 13 most of the last 10 years doing that, and at 14 the same time being a prosecutor and pointing 15 out that we are never going to be able to build 16 enough prisons. 17 And I just put it in terms of being 18 cost-effective. When I talk to businessmen, I 19 say we can make an investment of a dollar in 20 prenatal care and save three dollars in health 21 care costs down the road. 22 We can make an investment of a dollar 53 1 in "educare" and give the child a good 2 foundation and save a bunch of dollars down the 3 road in remedial programs and free teachers' 4 time to teach the new skills. It's a message 5 that has got to be given again and again. 6 And I think you would find far 7 greater acceptance than you think amongst a lot 8 of people. They are absolutely committed to 9 doing prevention as long as they see it works. 10 MR. STRICKLAND: Yes, right. 11 ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO: And one of 12 the problems, however, is that you may have a 13 great prevention program for zero through 14 three; but, then, if you don't have afternoon 15 and evening programs for the kid when he's in 16 elementary school, all the good work goes for 17 naught. 18 And that's the reason so much of this 19 must be done within the community -- 20 MR. STRICKLAND: Uh-huh. 21 ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO: -- with 22 Washington trying to fill in places that the 54 1 community can't fit. 2 And it really comes back again, also, 3 to caring people. And the volunteerism that's 4 springing up, the corporate willingness to let 5 employees volunteer and to participate I think 6 is encouraging. 7 The dollar issue is going to be a 8 difficult issue, but I think more and more 9 people are understanding that an early 10 investment in children of a relatively small 11 amount saves us health care costs, prison 12 costs, lives. 13 And also, as I point out to industry, 14 unless we invest in our children, we're not 15 going to have a workforce that can fill the 16 jobs with the skills necessary to maintain that 17 company and this Nation as first-rate companies 18 and nations. 19 CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER: Ron Feldman. 20 MR. FELDMAN: Yes, Madam Attorney 21 General, I've heard you addressed this morning 22 -- and I think I've used the sixth term to 55 1 address you. So, speaking about language, you 2 can see that we're all quite inventive. I 3 don't know which would be the best term. 4 Probably all would suffice. 5 It seems to me that we're suffering, 6 in the arts, an audience crisis. We are 7 finding in some cases diminished audiences, and 8 we're finding that we don't have young 9 audiences. And that's because the arts are not 10 taught in our schools. They are not taught in 11 any other ways in our lives. 12 And so that as a society we're 13 beginning to devalue this. And that leads -- 14 is possibly a symptom of a society that's in 15 serious trouble. 16 One of the things that would be of 17 great value to the society is to put culture in 18 the center of it, where it belongs. Most 19 enlightened societies have put it there. And 20 one of the ways to do that is by example. 21 So, using all the knowledge that we 22 currently have, for example, that prisoners 56 1 keep coming back, the recidivist rate is very 2 high, that's very expensive. 3 And what's the purpose of letting 4 someone out when we've done nothing to improve 5 the lot of that individual who is then just 6 going to go out for a while, get frightened, 7 and going to be back in prison? 8 And for many prisoners, they're more 9 comfortable in prison. They don't know how to 10 live in the real world any longer, and they 11 don't have the skills. 12 So it would seem to me that models in 13 any field, particularly in prisons and justice, 14 where you take a prison that is not a good 15 prison, not a model prison, but not a good 16 prison, where the rates are very high, you 17 bring the community in -- and that means the 18 very large community and the local community -- 19 and you begin to apply all the skills that 20 we've spoken about today, with a list of 21 programs that might work in that particular 22 prison, and demonstrate that the recidivist 57 1 rate goes down dramatically in this prison, as 2 opposed to this prison, which is of equal 3 stature, has the same statistics. 4 And then, we have a model where art 5 becomes central or to one of the components 6 which makes for a difference and saves the 7 society and its crime rate in the human 8 tragedy, and also economically. 9 So that all of a sudden resources 10 make sense to be committed to this type of 11 program. And then the model is something that 12 can be replicated in different ways in 13 different communities, but we have a handle on 14 it. And then resources will flow to that. 15 And it would seem that as we do that 16 with students and children, and we do that in 17 our prisons and in different places, that the 18 actual models, where the money goes to proving 19 this on a level that would have great respect, 20 would be very helpful. 21 ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO: There are 22 some examples of programs in prisons that are 58 1 far more effective than others. And we try to 2 use those. 3 But one of the problems is that a 4 prison can be just so effective. If the person 5 goes back to the apartment over the open-air 6 drug market where they got into trouble in the 7 first place, without community support, that 8 becomes a problem. 9 So it is very difficult to measure, 10 as it is difficult to measure the success of 11 prevention programs. But we are trying to do 12 as much of that as we can. 13 And I think, also -- and I think this 14 is important -- there is something intangible 15 about the arts. There is a strength, a part of 16 you that the arts create that you can never 17 ever measure. 18 And that is, as it seems to me, to be 19 our challenge, of how we show everybody that 20 the arts are important to even those who can't 21 sing and can't draw, and yet they give us a 22 strength and an understanding that can't be 59 1 measured. 2 MR. FELDMAN: Well, I think that 3 you've hit upon one of our great problems in 4 the agency, and that is that it's very hard to 5 prove that the arts have affected many lives. 6 And so we use examples of those who 7 have succeeded who had a music lesson when they 8 were very young and went on to write a great 9 musical score for a film, and the company made 10 a billion dollars. 11 And we need to use those examples, 12 but there are also those who it affected their 13 lives and their behavior their whole life, and 14 it's hard to measure that. 15 At the same time, we do need 16 examples, we do need statistics. And the model 17 that I'm talking about is the model that does 18 exactly what we're talking about in the prison, 19 and then also puts in the community later and 20 the aftercare of the prisoner, so that you have 21 everything working. 22 If you do it piecemeal, we're going 60 1 to always have this problem. 2 CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER: We're going to 3 have to let the Attorney General get back to 4 her real life, as -- 5 ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO: I think this 6 is part of my real life. 7 CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER: Thank you. 8 Thank you. 9 ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO: (Inaudible) 10 CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER: We are very 11 grateful that you do. 12 Thank you, Madam Attorney General. 13 (Applause) 14 (Whereupon, at approximately 15 11:00 a.m., the 128th Meeting of 16 the National Council on the 17 Arts' session with Attorney 18 General Janet F. Reno was 19 concluded.) 20 * * * * * 21 22